The Scattered Children of God

The Scattered Children of God

Well we will be having a new topic soon, once I have finished on the Atonement of Christ. That being "Who is Jesus"?

But for now I would like to give another example of scripture detailing for whom Jesus died for. Lets us begin by going to John Chapter Ten.
Jesus Speaking;

"I am the good shepherd, I know my Sheep and my Sheep know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father and I lay down my life for the Sheep. I have other Sheep that are not of this Sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one Shepherd" (John 10; 14-16)

Jesus clearly lets us know that he is laying down his life for his Sheep. Also that he also has another pen of sheep to bring in. This is contrast to those who are not his sheep,

"You do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me. I give them eternal life and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10; 26-28)

Jesus did not say you do not believe, so therefore you are not my sheep. He said, "You do not believe because you are not my sheep". There is a difference, God’s chosen elect from eternity in Christ (Eph 1;4-14 ) are his sheep and they will believe. Jesus has given them eternal life and they shall never perish. Why will they never perish? Because they have been predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ from eternity.

Then in John Chapter 11 this evidence comes out at the discussion of the Sanhedrin,

"Then one of them, named Caiaphas, who was High Priest that year, spoke up, "You know nothing at all! You do not realize that it is better for that one man (Jesus) die for the people than that the whole nation perish.

He did not say this on his own, but as High Priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation, and not only for that nation but also for the scattered children of God, to bring them together and to make them one. (John 11; 49-52).

This passage is important as Caiaphas was prophesying that Jesus would die for the Jewish nation and also the scattered children of God. Which are his Sheep spoken about in chapter Ten, the one flock under the one Shepherd.

Lets look at verse 51-52 of John Chapter 11. John is talking about the Jewish nation and also Gentiles who will believe as they are called the children of God.
Look at how Jesus treats the Gentiles. He does not treat them as a mass, meaning every person in the world. He treats them selectively and calls them ‘the scattered children of God’. Then he gives us God’s purpose in Christ’s death; To bring them together and to make them one. In speaking of the nation of Israel he has in view the children of God who were not scattered when he wrote, now he says, God intends to take the scattered children of God and bring them together with the unscattered children of God, so that they will be one.
The nation then, in John’s mind is the elect of Israel, and the scattered children are the elect among the Gentiles. Jesus Christ died for these people, in there place only.

This passage is clear that Jesus died for his elect people only, let us have a look at the truths again,

Jesus lays his life down for his sheep, some are not his sheep that is why they don’t believe. Jesus is after bringing in his scattered sheep to bring them in to one flock. Who are these people. They are believers, children of God. Jesus died for the Jewish nation, meaning the elect in Israel and also for the scattered children throughout the world and following ages who have been chosen to believe. It is clear Jesus did not die for a mass of people, but for a scattered number throughout the world, his elect!

The Big Picture!

The Big Picture?

It is difficult to believe that God intended Christ’s death for every person, which is enjoyed upon the condition that they believe in him, when he has not arranged for every one to hear the gospel. While it is true that Christ has commanded his church to carry the gospel to the nations, it is equally true that many people throughout the centuries have lived and died in spiritual darkness. It would be impossible to assert that Christ died for those whose eternal destiny had already been sealed in death, who were at the time of his death in hell.

Scriptures tells us that God’s special saving revelation is given to those he chooses to give it to, and freely by his grace. It was God who chose Israel to be his chosen people, and this was not because they were great people or that they chose him. God in the Old Testament related to this nation in a way, which he never did to any of the gentile nation.

He left the Gentile nations "alienated from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in this world" (Eph 2;12)

What are we to make of this verse? As I read the passage I take it to mean that the gentile nations were not part of the chosen people (Jews), they were without the covenants of promise (which would include the principles of salvation) and were without hope and without God in this world. God was not in relationship with these people. I once used this verse when I was studying at Carey Baptist College and one teacher told me that I was trying to make a doctrine out of one verse, but I do not think this is true. I was not making a doctrine but stating a truth with evidence. As the Bible goes on to say,

Throughout Old Testament times he "let all the nations go their own way" (Acts 14;16) and "overlooked their ignorance" in a sense that he did not nothing to directly overcome it (Acts 17;30). Exclusively to Israel did God entrust the oracles of God (Rom 3;1-2) . And the Psalmist even evokes praise to the Lord because "he has revealed his word to Jacob, his laws and decrees to Israel. He has done this for no other nation; they do not know his laws. Praise the Lord" (Ps. 147;19-20). Without revelation or God’s rules there is no way to know God or to cover one sins by following God’s rules. It was to Abraham who was given the promises and gospel (Gal 3;8) and it was by faith in this that the OT saints were saved. This was not given to any other nation. Amos 3;2 says, "You only have I known (loved convenantally) of all the families of the earth.
For we know that without faith in the promises of Christ and faith in Christ for people beyond the cross, there is no salvation in any other form that saves.

So did Jesus die for the all those who had lived and died in there own sin, which were already in hell when Jesus went to the cross. I don’t think so…

I think the evidence supports that God has chosen a people out of the world (the Jews), who would at the time of the cross incorporate a people out of the gentile nations for salvation. It is for these people that I believe Jesus died for, as the bible makes it clear that after we die there is no second chance (Heb. 9; 27).

That "He" desires all to come!

That "He" desires all to come!

In this post we will be looking at the two main passages that are used to defend an Arminian belief that Jesus died for every person who has every lived. My heart would love to accept that Jesus did die for all, and that all would be saved, but God’s word does not give us this option, and who are we to tamper with God’s Word. Let God be God and let us praise him for his Grace upon us. We can only bow our heads and thank him for his Mercy .

The two passage that are used to enforce their belief in universal redemption are 1 Timothy 2;4 and 2 Peter 3;9. It is over the context of the statements, which say "Who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth" and "Not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance."

I do believe that for some one new to the scriptures that reading these verses’straight off one may think that universal desire is what the passage is saying. But under closer detail before we even look at the whole of the Bibles teaching on salvation, I do believe the context of the two passages does not teach universal redemption.

1 Timothy 2;4

"First of all then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quite life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

The first appearance of the phase "all men" comes at the end of verse 1, and its meaning must be fairly clear. Paul is not asking that Timothy proclaim that entreaties and prayers be made for every person who has every lived, It would be crazy as some world be dead already in hell. No he is asking that prayers be made to the "all" he has in context.
Who are these "all" that Paul is talking about? The very next phase tells us "for kings and all who are in authority. Why does he say to pray for them? Cause they would be the ones in power controlling the persecution of Christians. The "all" that Paul is taking about in verse 1 is all kinds of people in authority.

Then Paul states that such prayers for all kinds of men is good and acceptable "in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved". If we are consistent with the preceding context we will see "all men" here in the same manner as "all men" of the proceeding verses; all kinds of men. God wants us to pray for kings and people in authority for a quite life and also that these kinds of people would be saved also. God saves Kings as well!
The "all who he desires to be saved are from the "all" in verse 1, kings and those who are in authority.

For those who disagree, they then must accept that Paul was asking Timothy to pray for every one in the world that all would be saved. But the passage does not say that.
We must also look at the word "Ransom" in verse 6. What is a ransom? Well the nature of a ransom is such that when paid and accepted it automatically frees the person for whom it was intended. Other wise it would not be a true ransom, but a failed deal.

Christ’ ransom was either a saving ransom or a non-saving one. If it is actual and really made in behalf of all men, then all people have been purchased and will be saved, but this does not fit with the text or the rest of scripture. If God wanted all to be saved, that being every person who has ever lived, why didn’t he chose every one in Christ from the foundation of the world and predestine them to adoption as son’s?
Jesus’ ransom purchased and released his chosen people from the power of sin (Rev 5;9). They were purchased so when the gospel calls them they would freely come. This passage does not teach universal redemption.

2 Peter 3;9,

"Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation," For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by his word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the Day of Judgment and destruction of ungodly men. But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day. The lord is not slow about his promise, as some count slowness, but is patient towards you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God…"

James white says in the "The Potters freedom" of this verse,

Immediately one sees that unlike such passages as Ephesians 1, Romans 8-9, or John 6, this passage is not speaking about salvation as its topic. The reference to "coming to repentance" in 3;9 is made in passing. The topic is the coming of Christ…But the next thing that stands out upon the reading of the passage is the clear identification of the audience to which Peter is speaking. When speaking of mockers he refers to them in the third person, as "them". But everywhere else he speaks directly to his audience as the "beloved" and "you". He speaks of how his audience should behave "in holy conduct and godliness" and says that they look for the day of the Lord…This is vitally important, for the assumption made by the Arminian is that when verse 9 says the Lord is "patient towards you" that this "you" refers to everyone. Likewise, then, when it says "not wishing for any to perish" but "all to come to repentance," it is assumed that the "any" refers to anyone, the entire human race. Yet, the context indicates that the audience is quite specific. In other passages of scripture the interpreter would realize that we must decide who the ""you" refers to and use this to limit the "any" and "all’ of verse 9. (White, The Potters freedom, p. 146)

James White makes it obvious I think who the "YOU" can only be. The you is called the beloved, who is told to be holy in conduct and godliness, and to wait for the coming of the Lord. Why is the Lord slow about his promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but that all to come to repentance? The answer is because if Christ was to come back straight away all of the elect would not have been brought in to saving faith, and they would perish. God chose the elect before the foundation of the word, but the elect must still in "Time" believe. To reject this view, is to ignore who the promise is being made to and to pull out a small section of the passage from its context. The text is not saying that God wants the entire world to come to repentance.

Another verse that is some times used is verse Ezekiel 18;23

Ezekiel 18; 23, "Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? Says the Lord God, and not that he should turn from his ways and Live?.

The problem with this verse is that taken by its self, one might believe this is a universal claim that God wants all to be saved. But when we look into the rest of scripture we come across 1 Samuel 2;22-25 which says "But they would not listen to the voice of their father, for the Lord desired to put them to death". This can change the whole understanding of Ezekiel 11; 23.

In some sense he wants some people to live, and at other times others to die. He even desires to put them to death.

In our next post we will look weather scriptures is clear God’s on intentions, to whom did God give his promises to?

Ephesians 1; 3-11

Ephesians 1;3-11

In this post we will be looking at the truth of Ephesians 1 and its understanding on being chosen from the foundation of the earth and its relevance to the atonement and for whom Jesus died for.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places. Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love."

Ephesians 1; 3 starts out saying "blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Why should the Father be blessed? Because he is "our" Father of the Lord Jesus who has blessed us "in" Christ with every spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. Verse 4 goes on to tell us that God chose us in him, that is in Christ before the foundation of the world.

It is so easy to read past the most important truths in this passage.

There is a people chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world was set. Who are these people? They are the complete body of Christ, the Church, Christians, and elect Jews, the true Israel. These people were chosen before any other substance or thing was created. It was before any one had done anything good or bad. God from eternity had willed by his Sovereign choice to bless a people in Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2; 13-4 reinforces this truth, "But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you brethren, beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the spirit and belief in the truth, to which he called you by the gospel for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."

2 Thessalonians 2; 13-14 says that we were chosen for salvation, called to obtain the glory of the Lord.

"Having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself according to his good pleasure and will, to the praise of the glory of his grace by which he made us accepted in the beloved. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace, which he made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he purposed in himself."(Eph 1;5-9)

The text follows on in verse 5 by saying that those who he chose from eternity he has predestined to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to himself according to his good pleasure and will. These people are given to the Son according to God’ good pleasure and will. It is these people who will without fail obtain salvation. Verse 7 says that it is "in him that we have redemption through his blood the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace". Who is the "we" in this verse? It is the same as the "us" in verse 4, 5 and 6 those accepted in the beloved. Those chosen by God… It is these, which are the ones who have redemption. We must remember that the word redemption means to redeem or to purchase, It was Christ’ blood that purchased the souls of the Father’s chosen people.

As Acts 20;28 also says, "Therefore take heed to yourself and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church, which he purchased with his own blood."

The text is making it clear that all those who are chosen have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to his grace, which he purposed in himself.
It is for these people alone that Jesus died for on the cross for salvation.

Lest reflect on this and ask some propositions,

For who did Jesus die for? Can we still make the claim that Jesus died for every person who every lived for salvation, Its just not possible, It is those who were chosen from eternity in Christ that are those who have redemption in his blood.

Was the whole human race in Christ from eternity? The passage does not say this, and all those who were chosen are predestined to be adopted as sons. If it was everyone then the whole human race would be saved. The word predestined means that it is a confirmed fact. It is these that the Father gives to the Son in John 6;37.

Was God’s choice based on who he forsore would believe? No, as the text says it was "according to good pleasure which he purposed in himself. We saw in our last post that God decrees what he forknows…

Verse 11 also tells us that "We have obtained an inheritance being predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will.
Why were we chosen in him? A verse 6 says to the praise of the glory of his grace. God was demonstrating his grace to save some out of a dead world of sinners. It is only by this Sovereign grace that we are saved.

Ephesian 2; 8 says "for it was by grace you have been saved through faith and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God. Foreseeing who would believe is not a gift but an obligation. This free gift was given from eternity because God willed to show his grace to us. God has chosen to show a sinful world his glory through his church as it become holy and perfect.

Would the Arminian like to hold that God chooses a people for salvation, predestines them to adoption (that being the will of the Father), but the Son chooses to die for everyone and the Holy Spirit struggles to save them which were not predestined?

In our next post we will look at the scriptures that talk about God wanting all to come to repentance and that he desires none to perish.

Foreknown and Eternity

Foreknown and Eternity

In this post we will be looking at the ways some have tried to reject the Biblical view that God saves his own elect people because of his own sovereign choice.
But first I want to deal with the word "Foreknown" as many try to convert this word to mean "Foreseen". The easiest way to study this is to answer these three questions,

Does God’s foreknowledge determine what he decrees or does God’s decree determines what he foreknows?

Does God foreknow because he foreordains or does he foreordain because he foreknows?

Is being chosen in Christ from eternity based on what God’s foresees or what he foreordains?

The answer is quite simple, if all who has existed from eternity was God, then everything created has been made and planned according to how God has decreed (Willed it to be).

To often is the "God looked into the future and saw who would choose him statement made. But this is false as this would portray God as passively taking in knowledge from an out side source. Romans 9;11 tells us that election has done before anyone had done anything good or bad or were even born.

But in eternity God was all there was, he was not influenced in his will. God decrees what he wants. Also the word foreknow does not mean to foresee. The verb speaks of a personal choice on the part of the subject. It refers to the choice to enter into a relationship with someone. In this case, in eternity past God chose to enter into a personal relationship with his elect people, even before bringing them into existence.
Scripture makes it clear it is not based on foresight as John 1;13 says that "We are born (talking of salvation) not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. So then he has mercy on whom he desires, and hardens whom he desires (Rom. 9; 16-18). Romans 9 is clear that it is God who makes out of the same lump of clay one vessel for salvation and the other for hell.

If the truth was that God chooses what he foresees, then the creatures are by default the sovereigns of the universe, since their wills and actions are ultimate. God becomes a mere servant of the creature, reacting rather than reigning.

I want us now to look at two main scripture passages which confirm Gods; elect people from eternity, Romans 8; 29 –33 and Ephesians 1; 4-11. Throughout looking at this passage we will relate there meaning to John 6; 37 about being those the Father has given to the Son for salvation.

"For those whom he foreknow, he (God) also predestined to become conformed to the image of his Son, so that he would be the firstborn among many brethren." (Rom 8; 29)
This passage starts out telling us that, those he foreknow, he (God) chose to have a personal saving relationship with from eternity, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son. As we have already seen foreknown is not about foreseeing, as it would make no sense of predestination. As it would then be saying those God know who would believe, so he predestined them. But what would that make the word "predestined" to mean. If God knows they will believe, why does he have to predestine it. The truth is God is predestinating because this is what he has chosen to take place. He has chosen to bestow his love on these people and predestinate them to be conformed to the image of his Son. These who are predestined will without fail be conformed to the image of Christ.

One thing is for sure that this is not the whole world, so why would Jesus die for the whole wide world? The truth is he doesn’t for salvation anyway.

"These whom he predestined, he also called, and these whom he called, he also justified; and whom he justified, he also glorified". (Rom 8; 30)

It is clear that all those who are predestined are the one who are called to Christ. It is these that the Father in John 6; 37 is giving to the Son for salvation. If Jesus has called every one and died for everyone then every one would be predestined to be saved. This is of course false.

"What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us. He did not spare his own Son, but delivered him over for us all, how will he not also with him freely give us all things. For who will bring a charge against God’s elect" (Rom 8; 31-33)

Those that John 6 says the Father gave the Son are also those the father did spare his Son for, but delivered him up for his Elect chosen people.

In my next post we will look at Ephesians 1 and then the verse’ that say "God desires all to be saved"

What was Jesus' intention and Mision?

What was Jesus intention and Mission.

Did God the Father, in sending his Son into the world to make atonement for sinners, intend to make salvation available to every individual person, or was his purpose that his Son’s death should provide satisfaction for the sins of the elect alone? Did Christ go to the cross in order to make salvation possible for whoever might believe, or did he have in mind those whom the Father had foreknown, elected and given to him?

To answer this question one should go to the highest authority we have, the Bible and the words from which come from the mouth of Jesus Christ. For to long now there has been two camps that disagree on these questions. One excuse is that "Oh well one side has his verses and the other theirs to support their views, so who can be right!. The Bible has no confusion on what it says, and it does not teach two different opposing views.

We are living in the age Jesus talked about, where the Church is focussed on everything else but sound doctrine. Even to scared to engage it. The church is committing Pulpit crimes, time and time again because of its rejection on what the scriptures teach. Where is the love of Truth.
In this Post I will start off examining what Jesus said his purpose was for coming down to earth.

John 6; 37-40,
"All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, no to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me, that of all that has been given me I will lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I myself will raise them up on the last day"

Yes a small passage of scripture, but contains some valuable truths. The context is very important; Jesus speaks to the crowds gathered in the synagogue at Capernaum. They have followed him there after the feeding of the five thousand the day before. They are seeking more miracles, and more food. Most of them were not interested in whom Jesus was. Jesus knew they did not posses real faith, because in verse 36 he says to them "But I said to you that you have seen me, and yet do not believe. It is now in verse 37 that Jesus explains their unbelief. But before we examine John 6; 37-40, lets just see what Jesus says soon after this verse about unbelief, John 6; 44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day" and also John 6;65 "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to me unless it has been granted to him by my Father".

Ok, so lets see why they did not believe in Jesus from the passage of John 6; 37-40.
Jesus responds by saying, "All that the Father gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will certainly not cast out". Jesus makes it clear and sharp, that all that the Father gives to me will come to me. If you don’t believe in me obviously the Father hasn’t given you to me.

Then Jesus says, " For I have come down from heaven, no to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me. This is the will of him who sent me, that of all that has been given me I will lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day."

It is now given to us in verse 37 why Jesus came to earth and what his intention was. Jesus says that he came down from heaven not to do his will, but the will of him who sent him. Jesus had come to accomplish a mission given to him by the Father, and this mission is very clear. The will of the Father was that all he has given Jesus, he would not lose any of them but raise them up on the last day.

" For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in him will have eternal life, and I myself will raise them up on the last day"

Now that we have the basic understanding of the passage lets tighten the passage and it’s meaning even more, remembering that the context is about unbelief.
Jesus says all that the Father gives to me will come to me, what does he mean by this, obviously salvation. All that the Father gives to Jesus will be saved and what does this have to do with for whom did Christ die for.
Well those who are not given to the Father will not come to the Son for Salvation. Because those who are given to the Son are saved and Jesus promises that he will not lose one of them but raise them up on the last day. From this passage we can not get that God gave Jesus for every person who has every lived, because then every person would be saved, because if they were not Jesus would have failed the Father in his mission as some would be lost. Also Jesus makes it clear in John 6;44 and 65 that in fact no one can come to him unless the Father has granted it and draws them to him. So the will of God in sending his son to die is to save all those he gives to Jesus. Jesus came to save Gods elect, not every single person on earth.

It is vital to see the truth that is communicated by this context; the giving by the Father to the Son precedes and determines the coming of a person to Christ. The action of giving by the Father comes before the action of the coming to Christ by the individual.
Some will try and say oh but what the passage means is that all the Father has seen will believe in Christ will come to Christ, but this is wrong and I will show why this is wrong in the next post.
In my next post we will look at ways people try and get out of this truth, by enforcing more scriptures. We will examine Foreknowledge and chosen from eternity with the rest of "Who Jesus says he came for"…

A Free ticket or a Dying in place of another ?

A Free Ticket or a dying in place of another?

Well I normally would like to keep my post’s going in logical order, step by step, proving each point by setting the first foundations and then bringing the next. But a friend of mine came to me with a good question, one I believe more people should look into. That being, What did Jesus do, or gain at the cross. Did he go to the cross to make people savable or did he go to the cross to save someone.

This question is known in the theology world as claming one or the other, Universal Redemption or Limited Redemption.

In other words did Jesus go to the cross to pay for the punishment of sin, and then offer a gift to people to take if they chose to believe or did Jesus die in some one’s place.

This question needs to be defined, was Jesus death like an appeasement to God, and then a free ticket granted to any one who will believe or did Jesus actually "Save" a people by dying their death. Meaning the death of that person for his sin was an accomplished fact at the cross.
In other words did Jesus die for every person who has every lived or did he die for his chosen elect.

This question of the atonement I will focus on in a number of posts so that we can process through all the nuts and bolts of these claims. It is very easy to run a head a miss the most important issues. In this post I do not want to go too deep, but I want us to start reflecting on these questions. We will not be coming to any full conclusion or expounding on many scriptures in this post.

Universal redemption, makes the claim that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world, meaning every person who has every lived. In this view Jesus does not save a particular person, but makes salvation possible. In this view I find it hard to understand what Jesse actually did with sin. Did he in fact cover our sins or did he just pay a penalty for sin. From what I see in the universal’s claim, it is that Jesus did not take the sins of all people, as if he did no one could be condemned. But Jesus just paid a penalty for sin, which is forgiven when some one comes to Christ. This makes the work of the cross a cancellation ticket when picked up. But this is not what the scriptures describe, for they say that Jesus covered our sins and tasted our deaths. Scripture in fact says that he purchased peoples deaths with his life.

For example if Jesus paid for the sins off the whole world (every individual who has every lived), and covered there sins as the scriptures said he did when he reconciled the world to himself, then no one would be held guilty for his or her sins.

2 Corinthians 5;19 says, "That God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them". The word "reconciliation" means to bring back in to a right relationship. So are we to believe that the world here spoken of is every individual who has every lived? A quick study of the use of the word "world" in scripture will show "No" it is not. Are we to believe all people’s sins are not counted against them from the work of the cross. The passage says nothing about making people savable, but that their sin’ were not counted against them, meaning they never will be….

Also if Jesus had paid for all the sin’s of the world, then did he not also pay for the sin of unbelief? If he had paid for every individual’s sins then know one could be condemned for not believing. The very action of rejecting Christ has been covered for all people, which is not true, as some people will be in hell.
This view teaching that salvation is the work of God and then a person must take this pardon (Offer), means that Jesus had not covered the sin of unbelief for every person. But he did cover the sin of unbelief for the believer because he was an unbeliever by nature and practice.
The differences between these views is that Jesus either just paid a penalty for sin opening the door for all people to make a choice, or that Jesus became a substitute on the cross. Now a substitute is a man who takes the place of another. As a substitute he in fact dies for a known individual and dies their death. Jesus dies in place of them, dying the second death for that person. Jesus took our place and died our eternal death for us on the cross. We can not say that Jesus accomplished dying for an individual and then the person never comes to faith, for that is a broken deal (John 6; 37-40).

James White gives a good example to reflect on, Lets say there is a man named John Green, God in his perfect foreknowledge of the "free acts" of human beings (The Arminian view) knows perfectly that John Green will not accept Christ. Despite the best effects of the Holy Spirit, it is known, perfectly, that John Green will die rejecting the gospel and end up in hell as a result. This view that is promoted would lead us to believe that even though God the Father causes Jesus Christ to suffer in John Green’s place bearing his sins and the penalty on the cross. This is despite the fact that God likewise knows he will demand the same penalty for the same sins from John Green in eternity to come. Why would God lay John Green’s sins on Jesus knowing full well that Christ’ work would fail on his behalf.

My conclusion at this stage on examining the definitions of this claim is that I still do not know what Jesus actually did on the cross. He certainly didn’t bored the sins of those who he know would never believe and then extract them back on to the unbeliever at the time of judgment. All I can see from this view is that Jesus gives an offer to believe and if you believe your sin’s are covered, but know individuals sins were covered at the cross and Jesus did not die in that persons place making the salvation an eternal redemption. A fact accomplished and certain.

2. In our second view Limited Atonement. The claim is made that Jesus went to the cross to die in the place off a large group of individuals, which he calls the elect given to him by the Father. It is the view that Jesus tasted their eternal death by dying in their place.
He bore their sins in his body.
The Bible describes the atonement through the concepts of these words,
Sacrifice, The notion in essence was that the sin of the offerer was imputed to the offering and the offering bore as a result the death penalty. It was a substitutive endurance of a penalty or liability due to sin.

Propitiation, To propitiation means to "Placate", "Pacify", "Appease", the wrath of God and is the idea that is applied to the atonement accomplished by Christ.

Redemption, The language of redemption is the language of purchase and more specifically of ransom. And ransom is the securing of a release by the payment of a price.

Reconciliation, Bringing what was alienated from God into right relationship.

The idea of Limited atonement is that Christ’ death was the actual death of some one. He was dying in their place and he did not do this for the whole world. The bible calls this death that Christ and men share "death to sin" (Rom 6;10). For every person Jesus died for they will be saved without fail. For those he dies for are those he calls to believe in him.
This is why 2 Corinthians 5’14 can say that "One died for all (Jesus), therefore all died (for those Christ died for were free from the sin of death). Some will try and say, Oh, but the text say he died for all people, but this is not true, the "all" must be read in its context. It is the all that Jesus died for and this was not the whole world, but his elect. For when Jesus died in the place of another, that person has also died with him to the curse and the death of sin. When Jesus died for you, he purchased you!!.

As all died in Adam and were dead in sin, those Christ died for are brought to life, freed from the sin of death (Rom 5; 15-19). Adam killed mankind, but God saved a people out from the world (John 17; 6). It would be wrong to say that Adam killed mankind and every one died to sin, and then from the act of the Cross, Jesus died the death of everyone imputing righteousness to the whole world.
Jesus is called the second Adam in scripture, and it is clear that a transaction was done like Adams. Adam’s act imputed sin in the whole race, and Jesus’ act imputed righteousness. If Jesus did this for every person who had every lived, even those who were all ready dead in hell before Jesus was born, then every one would be righteous, which is false. Jesus died for all those the Father gave him (John 6; 37).

As I said in this post I will not be proving this claim yet, but I am making this position definition clear. But can I give a few examples that this is what the bible teaches, for the Bible talks about dying for Christ’ elect only.

Romans 8; 29-33, "For whom he forknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be the firstborn a many brethren. (There is a people who have been predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. It does not say ‘all’ but many brethren) Moreover who he predestined, these he called; whom he called, these he also justified; and whom he justified these he also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us (those being predestined), who can be against us,
He did not spare his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us allthings? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies."

It is clear that those that God had predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ, are the one’s who Jesus has died for, the many brethren, who have been called. God did not spare his Son (meaning he went to the Cross) but delivered him up to die for God’s elect people.

Hebrews 2; 9-11, "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angles, for the suffering of death crowned with glory ad honor, that he by the grace of God might taste death for everyone. (Who is the every one, the next verse tells us, the many Sons to glory)
For it was fitting for him, for whom are all things and by whom all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason he is not ashamed to call them brethren.

Also scriptures makes it clear that Jesus was dying for a particular group of people, not the whole world.

Eph 5;25 "Husbands love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her"

Acts 20; 28 "Be shepherds of the church of God, which he brought with his own blood"

1 Peter 1-2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father in sanctification of the spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."

Rev 5;7 "You were worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation." ( It does not say that he purchased the whole world)

Matt 20; 28 "Just as the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and give his life for many.

John 10; 15 "As the Father knows me, even so I know the father and I lay down my life for the Sheep."

It comes down to the question, what was Christ doing when he died? Was he redeeming or was he only making these things possible. In my next post we will look at what Jesus said he came to do…